“New Boss, Same as the Old Boss?” – Correspondence with the (Bavarian) Illuminati

by Wes Penre
Posted: Friday, November 18, 2011 @ 4:35 a.m.


This conversation between me and “Mike” at http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/ happened during the last few days.

It started with one of my readers contacting me about a picture of a newsletter from the Vatican, posted by Mike. However, the newsletter was dated incorrectly (see the picture above). So I wrote to Mike, who is the webmaster of the Armageddon website, published by the Illuminati. Mind you, this Illuminati group is promoting themselves as being against the Powers That Be, and are the modern form of the old Bavarian Illuminati. They want humankind to wake up to the fact that we are controlled by the above Power Elite, and if we follow the advice of this Illuminati Group (yes, they are the real deal), the world will recover and prosper.

The response I got from Mike only strengthens the feelings I’ve had regarding their website, and those feelings are not very good. Why? You will see when you read the whole correspondence below.

The first letter was written by one of my readers, whom I call John for simplicity. Mike is the webmaster of armageddonconscpiracy/Illuminati, and Wes is, of course, me.

(NOTE: My letter to Mike, posted at the end, has been added to since I sent it to him, but the main message is exactly the same).


John said:

Dear Wes Penre,

Under webpage: http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/The-Illuminati%28903482%29.htm, The Vatican Ban.

The English edition of the Vatican’s newspaper made the following announcement. Image: http://www.armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/userimages/newspaper%284%29.jpg

Could you please verify the posted image date with the source again?
– The image date showed “Monday, August 12, 2008”
– But August 12 2008 should be a Tuesday, 2008 was a leap year.
The Vatican’s own journal: “L’osservatore romano” (The Roman Observer) is a daily newspaper with six issues per week.
There is no issue on Mondays, to let the staff rest on Sudays.

Thank you and best regards,

Mike said:

It’s a fascinating phenomenon that people devote themselves to these date-checking exercises. In a world of defining your priorities, it seems somewhat odd for your readers to be spending their time engaged in this type of thing. They fiddle while Rome burns. It says a great deal about them.

The situation is in fact much worse than your reader suggests – the newspaper clearly isn’t anything like the official Vatican newspaper! It’s extraordinary that he discovers the detail while ignoring the much more glaring error. He’s more like Detective Dumb than Sherlock Holmes.

Go to this page http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/The-Satan-Plan(1837991).htm and search for “Vatican Ban”. Your reader can’t even master the most basic research.

We now use this as a kind of test. Perhaps you should ask your readers why they check dates on our website rather than trying to overthrow Wall Street, Zion and the Vatican. No wonder the Power Elite are so secure.

In fact, perhaps you should post this message on your page. Isn’t this the time to be changing the world rather than looking up calendars? If people doubt what we say and who we are, they should go elsewhere and do something else. Isn’t that the rational thing to do? Do they think someone will award them a medal for autistically checking dates? Is that what heroes are made of these days? A few weeks ago, someone was stating “definitively” on the David Icke forum that the AC site was written by the bastard son of Aleister Crowley. We’ve heard all the nonsense imaginable.

We have absolute contempt for people who come to our site looking to “beat the Illuminati”. If they don’t like us, they can FUCK OFF! Anyone opposed to the Illuminati is a friend of the Old World Order. It’s time to choose sides.

Wes said:

Hello Mike,

I have read more from your website, and the information in itself is often very enlightening and very profound (and old as the ages, of course). I am one of those who read beyond debunked pictures like the Vatican ban.

However, what strikes me is the overall tone on the website. It is very hostile and aggressive. Religious people are trashed, laughed at, and even called stupid. To me, that’s very repulsive, and I’m sure it is for many reader as well. Your writing style (which I know is supported by the senior members of your Order) is not the sign of enlightened people.

Will people join your mission? Only a small group, I would suggest; the rest would probably feel like me — there is a lot of good information, but this Order is very antagonistic and controlling. If the world, with your help, would overthrow the Old World Order, what would remain? What would you do with the religious people? They are the majority, you know. Force them to change their minds by anger and hate – maybe even threats? Actually, you are wittingly or unwittingly supporting the diversion of this planet, which is contrary to your mission statement, saying you want to unite.

It’s a shame that a group with so much wisdom and knowledge doesn’t know how to use it. I must say you don’t even have the basic knowledge how to talk to “common people”. It strikes me kind of odd, actually. With the wisdom you have, you would have figured out how to communicate. Therefore, I have the feeling you DO know how to communicate, but the hostile tone is intentional; just more ‘divide and conquer’. You attract those who are already angry and make them more angry. Don’t we have enough of those energies?

Let’s say that you succeed in uniting the majority of the world population? Then what? Is your tone going to change then into becoming softer and more humane, or is this antagonistic, and yes – controlling – mindset going to continue?

You end your email with the mindset of George W. Bush: “You are either with us or against us”. This, too,  indicates that the Order utilizes strict control in the resemblance of a cult made up of wolves and sheep. What happens in a cult is that the members don’t see clearly; they think the cult is the only way out. Who is in charge of your New World Order, Mike? “New boss, same as the old boss?”

No, there are never only two sides. As a matter of fact, taking “sides” only creates diversion: Old World Order vs. New World Order; Christians against Illuminists…you get the point. It’s never “us against them” — the goal is Unity, and that can never be accomplished with antagonism.

Thank you for your suggestion to choose sides, but I will continue reading from your site and take the best of it with me on my journey and leave the rest. That’s what I always do, anyway. Then I will continue walking my own path, and that does not include the “path of the Illuminati”, or that of the Powers That Be.

In your type of meritocratic society, which is a big part of your New World Order, there will still be a lot of Elitism. Meritocracy is not a political system (or shouldn’t be), it’s a way of living in a free society, where one’s talents and career in life are discovered at an early age, based on what the child wants to do, where his/her talents are, and finding their goals in life. Then society supports that. Everybody can change their mind anytime and choose a new career, which is also being supported. Sounds good, doesn’t it?

However (and there always seems to be a “however”), in the Illuminati New World, mothers and fathers are NOT allowed to raise their children; it will be done by special people, who “know” how to raise children. This goes against the whole purpose with bringing up children, who need their parent before anything else. Members of your group are obviously intelligent people and should have figured the following out. I agree that parents often don’t know how to raise their kids, but that’s because no one teaches them; quite the contrary — society indoctrinates them (which is not “teaching”)  to raise their kids in ways that are not supporting the young. Hence, shouldn’t your group have realized that taking the baby away from the family is NOT the solution, but to EDUCATE the parents and let them keep their babies? The tone on your site indicates that you think parents are too stupid to raise their own children. Your suggestions on the website, Mike, are sometimes as suppressive as the current system, sometimes even more so.

Unless your Order comes to their senses and you start to share your knowledge with the public in the spirit of Unconditional Love as if it was the most natural thing (which it is), I am not taking your intentions seriously. You are talking about love and how important it is, and that it is GOD, but you are doing the exact opposite. How can people then take you seriously? Either you will not understand what I am saying here, or you are using abusive language on purpose. My hope, though, is that the Order takes this message to heart.

Regarding the picture in the Vatican Newsletter… So you are saying that you are using disinformation on occasion to “test” the reader. Those who go past the disinformation are those you want to keep, and those who look through it and point it out — not so much. Another form of Elitism and Indoctrination, Mike. Do you know the Truth or not? Because if you do, you want to educate EVERYBODY, and we should all have our opportunity to read and study the Truth. As I see it; if someone is reading past the “obvious disinfo” you are providing, and still supports your Order, s/he is easily manipulated, and THESE are the people you want, isn’t it, Mike? Yes, I told you in the beginning that I am reading past it, too, but not with the intention to join the Order or its values, but to learn from the information that rings true.

There are a lot of cults out there, but they have one thing in common: they hook the public with truth, not with lies. The more truth that can be revealed “safely”, the more chances of a large membership. This could also be the case with the Illuminati, but the majority of members you attract are those who vibrate on anger and discontent. That’s a low vibration you are putting out there the way you write. This is telling me, without a doubt, that the Order is not as benevolent as it depicts itself. It’s all in the vibration, Mike. And you know the expression, “as above, so below”. If the tone in your writing is “anger”, then this anger is coming from the top. I’ve had enough of anger and fear. That’s not enlightenment.

My point is that if you really wanted to enlighten the world, you would give everybody the truth, unconditionally, for them to take or leave, and not mix it with disinformation because you want to be “selective”. That’s Secret Societies all over again – Elitism! You are creating even more diversion – the “stupid who hang up on details” and the “smart, who see them but don’t care”.

Something is very fishy here, Mike, and I hope that you have the courage to expose what this “fishy” part is all about in your next web article. If humanity is to support a certain idea or solution because it’s the greatest good for everybody, they want the cards on the table, Mike, face up.

I hope people are smart enough to see through the deception.

And you’re right. I should go ahead and post your message to the world and I will also attach these, my comments, to it.


34 thoughts on ““New Boss, Same as the Old Boss?” – Correspondence with the (Bavarian) Illuminati

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  4. TT

    Just wanted to chime in here (if the thread’s still alive). I actually think this is a potentially very crucial discussion. Like most people on this and other forums, I am also convinced there is something dead wrong with the “current world order”. And like many, a crucial missing element to my mind is most certainly a more evolutionary “spiritual perspective” (however much that term has become contaminated lately, mostly by people who like to avoid any serious discussion by putting things in categories or little boxes which can then be conveniently discarded without further thought, as in “oh, that spiritual hogwash” or “one of those conspiracy theorists”…). What I actually LIKE about the AC material – and this cannot be understated – is that it is one of a very few that endeavours to offer a realistic, real-life, practical alternative to the current status quo, i.e. they go so far as to explain in detail HOW they would go about building a new society. I mean, I’m all for expansion of consciousness, experiencing the underlying divine unity in the universe and radiating love and goodwill, but most sources that promote that kind of thing fall far short in the nuts and bolts department, as they almost never go into detail of how a world filled with those qualities could actually work on a day-to-day basis. So, that’s one area in which they have my full respect (aside from the fact that the guy(s) can actually write full sentences without spelling mistakes and doesn’t copy-paste 80% of his material from other sources).
    However, the site was also very disappointing to me in the sense that, as the only practical blueprint for actually overthrowing the OWO I’ve seen thus far, it somehow totally fails to enthuse me or fire me up. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe the militant tone is actually warranted by the dire straits we find ourselves in, and maybe their alternative is at least better than what we’re living right now, but still… I mean, did anyone notice the passage in which they seem to exult gangs as the ‘soldiers’ who could provide the brute muscle to defeat the OWO law enforcement shock troops (in reference to the riots of London)? I’m very sorry, but a bunch of crazed psychopaths from dysfunctional families who embody the OWO mantra of “might is right” to an extreme degree, whose – let’s be honest – only interest is (maybe through no fault of their own and as a result of being brought up in a dysfunctional system offering them no education or positive hope, but still….) self-gratification in the absence of any moral framework, taking control of the streets (New Orleans anyone?) is not exactly my idea of a better world… nor is the seeming glorification of unfettered sexual promiscuity, orgies, bacchanalians and BDSM fests. Also, the exceptionally aggressive stance towards the classic faiths and their founders is way too disrespectful for me and even not very ‘rational’ as such: people and society have changed a lot over the millennia, and it’s absurd to judge the people of 2000 years ago by the standards of today, especially since so little is known with absolute certainty about them. In my view the prophets of the great religions were in first instance trying to teach spiritual truths, NOT found political systems, and their merit should not be judged on the basis of how individuals bent only on temporal power have distorted their message to suit their own ends over the ages. I remain convinced that the great religions have all improved the societies OF THEIR TIME a great deal, before becoming so diluted and twisted that the original message was all but drowned out. The great teachings of the ancient western world had been all but forgotten in the dark middle ages, but were kept alive by the Arab schools that flourished in the great Islamic centres of learning until they were once again absorbed by the Renaissance scholars. This happened because back then Islam actually ENCOURAGED knowledge and science more than any other religion of its day. Sure, it wasn’t perfect, but do they know anything that WAS back then? It performed a function, like the other religions, to keep certain truths alive across certain periods – what on earth is ‘satanic’ about that? We also have to realize that most, if not all of the great religions are today interpreted much more narrowly and superstitiously than centuries ago: gone are the Sufi schools teaching the knowledge of Reality (never mentioned anywhere in the AC writings BTW, whereas much of the West’s occult knowledge was garnered from these quarters) from most parts of today’s Islamic world, levelled by literalist wahabbi fundamentalist zealots who accept only a literalist reading of the Holy Qur’an; Christianity has deteriorated into an emotionalist circus of simplistic, born-again, blinkered escapism with very little to offer any serious seeker; while Judaism has turned into an exclusivist racist club for paranoid, perpetually wronged Zionists who stick to outdated delusions of grandeur. In short, today’s literalist interpretations of religion can hardly be equated with “the original thing” – wouldn’t it be more productive to point that out to potentially interested people than to declare them all ‘satanic’? Is the religion of intellect, which has given us eugenics and market capitalism, really so free of the defects of the religions that were based more on faith/emotion/revelation?
    It would take me too far to go into too much detail, but from what I have experienced of mystical truth, one of the core lessons I took back was undoubtedly how low the level of our ordinary consciousness is, and how little our intellect is able to grasp raw Truth. A posture of humility and awe towards this central fact of existence is something I experienced as key to attaining to greater knowledge, and is something I sorely miss in the articles on the AC site, where the tone is always cocky, aggressive and ex cathedra. And love is a retarded concept, since it’s emotion-based and hence ‘irrational’. Another thing that bothered me is their principle that the religion of Being is to be discarded, in favour of one of ‘becoming’. I found this odd as it seems to totally disregard the dual nature of mystical truth and experience: the fundamental contradiction/paradox of ALL religious experience is exactly this interplay, this tension between the ‘perfect world of Being’ (the experience of the eternal underlying unity of All) and the ‘world of Becoming’ (the effort to live a ‘spiritual’ life in current daily reality). The classic work “Mysticism” by Evelyn Underhill, a seminal study of the stages that characterize the mystical experience in Christian mysticism, cites this fact as one of its most important conclusions. The point is: how to bring our world of Becoming closer to the ideal world of Being (the God-state, if you want), how to live mystical truth in daily life? Dispensing with half of the paradox, even calling it an evil lie, in my opinion turns their philosophy into a purely materialistic, ‘social’ experiment and leads me to doubt the spiritual truths they claim to possess… or is this another way of ‘deliberately misleading’ the unworthy (have to admit it’s a great excuse to dismiss away any inconsistencies beforehand…)?
    I have personally witnessed (and seemingly caused…) so many ‘anomalous’ phenomena and occurrences that it has left me convinced that there is more going on here than we might suspect, and I certainly wouldn’t be so arrogant as to call anybody who believes in alien beings or the reality of alien abductions a sucker or a gullible puppet, like the AC people (though I do admit that most of the wilder theories surrounding these issues are a phenomenal waste of time). And shouldn’t we get past the ‘rat race’ thing once and for all and concentrate on preserving our environment and actually enjoying the short time we are incarnated here, instead of manically pursuing either money and possessions or ‘meritocratic achievements’? Let’s face it: some people are perfectly happy to lead quiet lives without much moving and shaking – will they be the new ‘losers’ in a meritocratic system? Are ALL people capable of receiving spiritual truth, or do some simply lack both desire and capacity? The message is also so unilaterally focused on the western world: what happens to the many generational farmers or shepherds in the remote little villages of Asia, Africa, the Middle East… will those people be considered ‘too retarded’ in a meritocracy, simply because they prefer a traditional lifestyle, traditional beliefs and a traditional structure of power? I might actually take refuge in a place like that, however hidebound, when the rap-fuelled rage of the Movement hits the streets, to wait things out a little before deciding if I really want to be a part of all that…

    1. Hello TT,

      No offense, but to engage in further discussions regarding the Bavarian Illuminati is very low on my priority list. If you believe in their message and that they are really telling you “as it is”, then I understand that you want to defend them, or “stand up for them”.

      I look at them no different than any other secret society, except that this one is releasing a lot of occult information. However, what good is that if the theme of their whole website is very misleading, and they are either unaware of what is really behind it all, or they won’t tell us. And if they won’t tell us, why is that? As you probably know, their view on what/who is behind it is from my perspective erroneous.

      Your comment will remain here, so that way you have had your say in this, too. Personally, I could say a whole lot more, but my papers speak for themselves, and I shall leave it with that. People will have to make up their own minds. They know where my website is and they know where to find the Bavarian Illuminati.

      Wes Penre: http://wespenre.com/


      Bavarian Illuminati: http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/

      Thank you,

    2. The aggressive tone is purposely done, chosen to be aggressive. I think they (or he) have done that to invoke a dialogue between people and yes, take a stand.

      Thing is, the way they are presenting everything, they don’t want idiots in and are not their audience.

      They also presenting this, at an aggressive tone, to avoid trolling, it really is “if you are not with us,*uck off and go and do your game..”

      It’s all about God telling Abraham to slaughter his son etc. Taking out all the (racist) things in Abrahamic belief systems and irrational conspiracy theory’s and shit on it. I think they have a strategy like, if they would ask nicely and put it politely.. they are going to be de one to be shit on.

      If you talk about any system, whether it is democracy, Communism, Marxism, Meritocracy, it all works until there are found ways to exploit the holes because of the ignorance of men.

      And last but not least.. this rage, it happens every time. People who got *ucked over, don’t know how that had happened and blame anybody, whether government, groups of individual persons.

      They always forget to look at their selves. And that’s why.. the idiots are winning.

      Bad guys take advantage by trickery and de good and intelligent are all.. doing nothing about that…. over… and over….. and over…. again.

      Might want to read this book: http://ponerology.com/
      Heres the PDF: http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Political-Ponerology.pdf

  5. francis Godwin

    i truely agree with WES, because this illuminati theories are getting mad-how for once Could someone come up with an idealogy that there is à God of bein and a god of becoming or perhaps that every one is à god in his/her own capacity. Insanity! I am catholic i born in the church and i’m still in it. I have seen different miracle happened or performed If you will, in the name of JESUS CHRIST, so tell me, how possible is it that miracles can take place at the mentioning of the name JESUS CHRIST. I learn so much reading your articles but one thing i am sure of is I REFUSE TO BÈ DECIEVED by your articles and it likes.

    1. Shane

      Worship the pope? Pray to a statue? Believe in absolution through anyone who is a priest but not Christ ?put the pope above god and Christ ? If not, you’re not catholic . Read about your own religion. Christians don’t pray to false idol popes and their bent and occupied crosses or pentagrams, but will be a brothers keeper and let you know Christ is the ONLY way and his teachings SHOW the way. And it is his LOVE that makes it worthwhile . And our debt to each other is not one to be paid with false belief and false idols but to be paid by us when we ONLY SHOW LOVE to each other. A debt we can never pay with anything but the genuine article. We are all able to be deceived if we are not of the ” elect” ,,are you an elect? The elect belong only to god, not an institution or organization of unbelievers, though they may start that way. Do not accuse any of deception unless it has already been judged by god . Being ignorant is its own deception. Many thirst , and seek after god, don’t confuse someone else’s journey as ploy to decieve . It’s the ones who claim to be the Christ and others who falsely claim the Christ as their own you should examine. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. (Matthew 23:10 KJV) For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:13 KJV) For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. (Mark 13:22 KJV)

  6. I noticed the Date was wrong too which brought me to this site on my search for answers, I also noticed the Language in the Anonymous article which did make me suspicious, as I do know their are a Lot of sites claiming to be Illuminati sites, though I enjoy the Intelligent Articles
    Cheers all, Good Debate

    1. Yes, I agree with you. There is a lot of useful info there if we can discern. More than anything else, however, is the intention behind it — what is this knowledge going to be used for? Could very well be that the people who organize and write the articles don’t see that this is going to be used against us. When you’re ‘in it’ so to speak, you’re too involved to ‘see it’. Same thing with any cult.

      1. Leon

        They don’t say, you have got to be involved or in it. It isn’t a cult. They reject stupid people, like in born stupid, but can be a citizen (potential). They don’t like dangerous, negative, dominant simplistic views. They want their readers to think and by that making a contribution to the welfare and quality of each individual life on this planet. Their agressive approach is well chosen, consciously! I think this is because if they don’t, stupid, negative dominant people will take over and set the tone. I believe they call it something like ‘common sense idiots’. People who shout half truths, without knowing it are half truths, and those people are often judging others so they don’t have to look at their selves. If you look at their content it’s indeed (I think) a lot of interesting stuff. I’ve already seen and heard a lot of people judging their work but didn’t get any further than reading one page. The fear of their material being used against us, their intention being wrong, don’t know, but who is ‘us’?

        What I fear is the people who’s judgment is dangerous simplistic. In history, I think, it has been shown, that exactly these people took up a gun simply, by rumor! It’s called cannonfodder.

        As long as we have cannonfoddor, this world will be what is is now

  7. mcdink

    YES, new boss, same as the old boss and will not change until the day he die. he’s THE one and only, the DAJJAL…master of tricks.

  8. It is a petty and futile waste of energy to argue with these types of people. This is not the first attack against the Armageddon Conspiracy website that I have seen, nor will it be the last. These attacks tend to sway people away from visiting the website and reading the material provided and that is just fine with me. The Armageddon Conspiracy website is not meant to be accepted by everyone and I seriously doubt that it’s intention is to cater to those who subscribe to the preposterous notion that we are being ruled by a group of alien reptiles… I AM an avid reader of the Armageddon Conspiracy website and I take pleasure in reading it’s material, however, I do not go around like a jehovah’s witness telling everyone else to read it because I know that the vast majority of the population are simply incapable of accepting the ideas expressed in it’s content. I’ve learned to simply do my part and guide those who seek. Worry not, if those who believe their gods are dragons from the planet of doom do not wish to take the time to learn Truth and who they really are, then I AM okay with that.

  9. “If they are making fun of people and calling them ‘stupid’ now, I don’t even want to think about what they would do if they got their way.”

    I don’t mind them making fun of stereotypes and ridiculous ideas. I don’t mind when South Park, Bill Hicks and George Carlin do it, nor when Mike or the Illuminati do it. Why do you mind? Do you think it’s gonna hurt anyone?

    And some ideas ARE stupid, and so are the people who in the 21st century cling to them. Is calling people stupid because of their behavior or ideas (which they can abandon at any time) the same as saying they should be imprisoned or killed? Because that’s what you’re implying here (“I don’t even want to think about…”).

    You’re saying “everybody is entitled to follow any group you like,” but you’re now actively campaigning against one. You say you’re “not against anything”, but this contradicts you’re objecting to what you perceive as the wrong type of anger (or do you think anger is categorically wrong?).

    “And the way their website ridicules everybody who is not thinking like them is pretty alarming…” Is it? More alarming than the fact that millions of Abrahamists are eagerly waiting for Armageddon, or for their chance to enslave or slay as many infidels as they can? More alarming than what Goldman Sachs is doing? More alarming than the dumbing down of our youth? As far as I can tell they’re only ridiculing those who deserve to be ridiculed. Please be more specific: which group didn’t deserve to be called stupid?

    “Then people can make their choices as they wish.” Well, looking at the world around us (EVERYWHERE), people clearly aren’t doing that. Perhaps a little ridicule is what’s required. If you don’t think so, just ignore them. You’re not ignoring them, you’re villifying them, and misrepresenting their message (as I’ve pointed out in my previous message).

    Rather than “skimming through” several pages, just pick one, and read it carefully. Better yet, read the site in chronological order.

    1. Now that I’ve said my thing (it’s not that I’m going to change my mind) the rest is up to each individual. I don’t judge or ridicule anybody who wants to join the Illuminati group or the Movement. We have free will to do what we want to do. And I don’t judge or ridicule cult members or religious people either. There are much better ways to unite than how it’s promoted on their website. And some other method MAY actually work.

      Debates can go on forever, and it’s pointless and won’t lead anywhere. I am not really concerned that the Illuminati will succeed – they won’t. Their movement will not take root in today’s society where people are waking up spiritually. There may have been a small window a few years ago, but that window is now closed. The mass consciousness grew beyond it. Still, I feel it’s my duty to show people how these secret societies work, pretending to be each others opposites when at the top level they have the same puppet masters. There is no unity in their movement, Ivar – they are using words to manipulate you.

      Some may argue that it’s just Mike, the writer, who is emitting these negative energies, but I tend to differ. If Mike is allowed to write like that, it’s not his choice – I am sure his writing is strictly monitored and edited by people further up the Grades Chart. This is an age long tactic to turn man against man, written in a way that it looks like the intentions are the opposite from that. Mike’s arguments and hostile behavior reminds me very much of the Anti-Jewish movement. They use the same language and the same methods…

      Everyone, make up your mind, that’s all.

      BTW, the negative energy that is clouding the whole site doesn’t require from me to read every word (although I used to at one time). It’s glaring at you.

  10. After thoroughly going through their material, I too was confused by the hostile tone of the writing. I’m very glad you have brought this to our attention b/c it’s time confusion be eliminated for those who are seeking LIGHT. Thanks!

  11. Joan Dark

    This is pretty old news, though the tone of the email is curious.

    “Debunking Ourselves: The Vatican Ban

    Someone contacted us recently to say that he knew we were frauds and fakes because he had checked the date shown on the newspaper article featured in our article on the “Vatican Ban” and it was plainly wrong and the clipping, therefore, could not be genuine. (Although he did express the opinion that it was so obviously wrong that there must be more to it, and he was certainly right about that.)

    Our attitude towards such people is: Excellent! You’ve proved we’re charlatans so now you can leave our site and never come back.

    It’s not just the date that would have revealed this newspaper clipping to be an obvious fake. Anyone who knows anything about the Vatican’s newspaper (as we certainly do) would have spotted it instantly as a fake. Even those who have never heard of the Vatican’s newspaper could, in the space of a few seconds, find out what it genuinely looks like.

    Type “Vatican Newspaper” into Google. You will be shown the Vatican’s website at the top of the list. Enter the site and you will soon find your way to the Vatican’s newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, which has editions in several languages, including English.

    Here’s a link to show you what it looks like:



    The section to which they refer that this was always a hoax

  12. inissob

    Hi Wes,

    Please have a look at http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=176842. It is true that thomas_20111 has said something bad to ac site which make Mike so angry. I GUESS, in my humble option, that the members of ac is organizing the occupy wall street movement. So, the priority of finding the above mentioned date error is very low.

    By the way, ac site has got much trouble. Firstly, by an infamous author Alexander Romanov who commit copyright violation and ac site cannot provide free article as before. Please look at http://armageddonconspiracy.co.uk/Alexander-Romanov(2499096).htm. Secondly, because of Islamic infiltration in the so-called “mega-omega” event, the movement forum (https://the-movement.info/joomla) has been shutdown. I have joined the forum before and it is a pity that I cannot meet with some intelligence people at all.

    Actually, you introduce the ac site to me. I learn much from your both parties (although some ideas are having conflicts).

    Wish you all can resolve the problem finally.


  13. Excellent Wes, I am so glad you told them exactly what I and others think. All of us follow your work to some degree and have been readers of AC for a couple of years but now the consensus is that they are interested in indoctrinating people and taking them down a road of continued or worse separation than what we currently have. The only way out of this quagmire is through unity in diversity and peace. Any mention of love or harmony and they accuse people of being new age hippies which is total bolocks. There are more of us working towards a synthesis of Meritocracy with wisdom and you’d be welcome to stop by any time. Namaste

    1. leon

      Worse separation than what we currently have? In what world are you living?

      What cause has that seperation? Does it occur to you, that, maybe by dismissing all of these religions, you will create unity? Does it occur to you that dividing is the only method of controlling the herds?

      I can understand that this doctrine, what AC stands for, kicks the shit out of a lot of people and it hurts..
      But what really hurts is the war’s that are being created via these religions. The hatred they spread, the seperateness that comes out of it all…

      Please remember.. who is benefitting of al these seperateness? It is not you and me!!!!

      It is time to see for all Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindu’s that there is only one true God. Once that happens.. there is no reason for war now is there?

      The only thing that created seperateness are the ones benefitting from it.. time to let go these false same concepts of truth’s with different names.

      It is time to call upon one name.. and all here know that is true..
      Greed and psychopaths have created all of this, it is time to take matters into our own hand by taking away their advantage..

      It is like the pedophile is being set free becouse of a form error by the justice departement while the evidence is 100% clear.. Look at the message for God’s sake!

      It sounds like people are trying to identify themselfes on error’s of others, and nothing else.. shoot the messenger, not the message.. or something like that.. these people have never been able to get the most and best quality’s out of other people. These are negative dominant people who trive by the suffering of others.

      “Look, he’s wrong, nah nah na haaanaaah.. ”

      When I saw this piece of paper, first thing that occurred to me was, that the tekst in te paper was not fully shown, and the rest, I did’nt care.. becouse reading the A/C material was far more interesting to me.

      I am reading the content of the A/C site for a while and I can only say one thing at this moment..

      I fully 100% agree!

      1. The site we’re discussing is not written by enlightened people. That’s my point. However, they say they are the Enlightenment movement. What’s behind the words is more telling than the words themselves, though.

        God Help Us if these people get “in charge”. Look at the response to the reader’s letter as well. I want to have nothing more to do with these people, because they are not of the Light. Doesn’t mean that there is not true and valuable information on their site.

        But everybody is entitled to do whatever they want, and follow whomever they want, or stay sovereign if they choose. I’ve pointed out the red flags, as I see them. Now it’s up to each and everyone to make their choice. It’s none of my business.

        And I should add that I have not had so many positive responses from people on any article I have posted or written since I believe, 2008. Tons of emails thanking me for writing this article. That should tell you and the Illuminati that something is obviously wrong. And the majority of the emails I got were not from religious people.

        Take it for what it’s worth.

        1. Wes, regarding that “you’re either with us or against us”, consider this statement by Nietzsche, quoted several times on the website:

          “As soon as you feel yourself against me you have ceased to understand my position and consequently my arguments! You have to be the victim of the same passion!”

          And just see: you have indeed turned yourself against them, and the New World Order, by writing this negative article about them. You’ve even included gross misrepresentations of the Order by suggesting they think parents should not raise their children. Please cite a reference to that! The point is that the State must not assume that all adolescents are qualified to raise children. This doesn’t mean children will be shipped to boarding schools or anything like that. It simply means parents should be educated about psychology and pedagogy, and prevented from brainwashing their children. That’s all! And much of that can be taken care of in the type of education a true meritocracy provides. Didn’t they suggest psychology should be taught in high school?

          Another misunderstanding is this: “If the world, with your help, would overthrow the Old World Order, what would remain? What would you do with the religious people? They are the majority, you know. Force them to change their minds by anger and hate – maybe even threats?”

          Don’t you understand religious people ARE the Old World Order, and thus when the Old World Order is overthrown, there will be no more religious brainwashing? It’s stated clearly on the website that people can hold on to their beliefs if they want to, as long as they KEEP IT TO THEMSELVES. If they do that, the generations that follow will not have this problem. There will be no need for anger, hate or threats. Whose side are you on, Wes? Realistically, who are currently the most angry and hateful people in the world? Who issue threats when their beliefs are challenged? The orthodox Abrahamists of course! The Illuminati are simply using straightforward language, they’re not threatening anyone with physical violence!

          So, please consider all these things carefully and perhaps try reading the website again. Don’t expect them to express “unconditional love” they way you or your favorite authors do. They are who they are, and they express themselves the way they see fit. They’re not hurting anyone. They’re only attacking misconceptions and dangerous beliefs.

          “And I should add that I have not had so many positive responses from people on any article I have posted or written since I believe, 2008. Tons of emails thanking me for writing this article. That should tell you and the Illuminati that something is obviously wrong.”

          No, it simply means you have a wide audience, which we already knew. It’s not quantity that counts, but quality. Who’s to say my email is much better informed (having read the entire website up to ‘Sheol’) than all of your readers combined? Who’s to say your readers are going to topple the power elite, rather than the likes of me and the Illuminati?

          “The site we’re discussing is not written by enlightened people. That’s my point.”

          No, rather: you’re surprised that enlightened people don’t express themselves according to your expectations of an elightened people. You believe everyone should express themselves the way you and your favorite teachers do.


          1. You’re entitled to support and follow any group you like, Ivar. And so is everybody else on this planet. It’s amazing that you don’t see the anger, manipulation and intimidation which is the whole tone of the Armageddonconspiracy website – more so now than in the beginning. If they are making fun of people and calling them ‘stupid’ now, I don’t even want to think about what they would do if they got their way. Read up on human emotions and reactions and you’ll understand better how this works. If the ones who present the ideas can’t even come close to living up to what they are promoting, something is terribly wrong.

            Also, contrary to the Illuminati, I am not for or against anything; that’s my whole point. I am following my own path, and the Illuminati is not a part of it, neither is the Old World Order. Don’t let anyone fool you into thinking that there are only two sides of things. They may want you to think there are just black and white, but it’s not true. And the way their website ridicules everybody who is not thinking like them is pretty alarming and should be a big, red flag for anybody who can still think independently.

            Mike’s anger and frustration in his reply to my reader’s question made me want to look into the website again. I skimmed through the last 15 articles or so and was amazed how antagonistic they were – it’s getting worse and worse. I’m very pleased with this article – we’ve had enough of manipulation. Then people can make their choices as they wish. OWO or NWO – two sides of the same coin.

            The Illuminati are not liberators. Liberators and spiritual beings don’t spit out their anger and frustration in every second sentence.

            1. Leon

              Don’t know if you (Wes) have an article where you pick out the content of the A/C site that does correspond to your own ideology? They way I read your answers, you do also agree with a lot of contont on A/C. If you have, have you got an url for me? And thank you for your reply’s.

            2. Hi Leon,

              No, I don’t have such an article. People need to discern for themselves what they can use and what not.

              It’s not the information that is dangerous; it’s how it’s going to be implemented on a future society.

              If people want to read that website, they need to read it very carefully. What do these people want? What is their ‘utopia’? How will it affect the common citizen? Will it set humans free? No, quite the opposite. It becomes obvious once we read it with an objective mind. Hence, “new boss, same as the old boss”. They just change clothes. That’s all it is…”Look, my suit looks nicer than his suit. Follow me!” Same ancient techniques in new clothing – thought control and manipulation of the masses in order to control them.

              ~ Wes ~

            3. “Will it set humans free?”

              Yes, but not as in “free market capitalism” or some utopian anarchy. Meritocracy involves a big State, yes, but the aim is freedom from masters and slaves. The whole Armageddon Conspiracy site centers around the issue of freeing mankind from rule by the rich and stupid, and instead establishing a Smart Society, a Community of Gods, in which all children have get equal opportunities to succeed in live and manifest their full potential.

              “Same Boss…” WHICH BOSS?! The AC site is written by anonymous authors, and meritocracy is going to involve NEW leaders chosen by the people (i.e. those who are meritorious enough to vote, in other words people with relevant diplomas and work experience). Meritocracy is not about establishing the Illuminati as the new rulers of earth. They’re scholars, philosophers, visionaries, gnostics (or in Jungian terms: introverted, intuitive thinkers), not politicians. They want US (or rather our children) to govern. The only thing they want is that it’s going to be meritocratic governance, in a world that’s no longer controlled and dominated by a super rich elite, and free from all slave religions.

              So yes, meritocracy, as envisioned by the Illuminati, is going to set humans free, both individually and collectively.

            4. (I’m editing this comment now when I have more time, because I feel I could say it in a better way than I did this morning. That’s a good thing with being an ‘administrator. I can change my comments :-) )

              There are probably people who will opt in for the Illuminati ideas because they need, or want that experience, which is perfectly fine.

              I am personally opting out, because when I examine the “Illuminati Future” across the dimensions, I find that the implications are not what I need, or want to experience. I have other plans (other plans = other choices. That’s the beauty with the Multiverse – we create our own future with our own thoughts, emotions, and actions. We decide that we need/want to experience).

              So, it’s all by choice, and not everybody is going to experience the same thing. No one’s experience is right or wrong; just consequences of choices we make. That’s why we shouldn’t judge each others choices, although we are probably all guilty of doing that, sometimes.

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