Maria Orsic and the Vril Society

Published here: Monday May 4, 2009 at 7:24 PM 

This is a pretty important article for future reference. Never mind that this information comes from a White Extremists Forum, it doesn’t make the information less valid. Needless to say, I do not agree with the people on that forum. Those who followed my previous blog, temporarily deleted, remember Maria Orsic. The rest of you, please just read and remember for the future. Wes.

Maria Orsic
Maria Orsic

Maria Orsic, also known as Maria Orschitsch was a famous medium who became the leader of the Vril Gesellschaft. She was born in Vienna (Austria). Her father was a Croatian immigrant from Zagreb, her mother was from Vienna.

Maria soon followed the German national movement which was active at this time; the main goal of the movement was to annex Austria with the German Reich. In the year 1919 Maria moved to München, to her boyfriend, who became later her fiancé. It is unknown whether they married or not, because they both disappeared in 1945.

In Munich Maria was in contact with the Thule Gesellschaft and soon she created her own circle together with Traute A. from Munich and several other friends: the “Alldeutsche Gesellschaft für Metaphysik”, official name of the Vril Gesellschaft. All of them were young ladies, which among other things were against the arising fashion of short hair-styles for women. Both Maria and Traute were beautiful ladies with very long hair; Maria was blond and Traute was brown-haired. They had long horse tails, a very uncommon hairstyle at that time. This became a disctinctive characteristic in all the women who integrated Vril which was maintained till May 1945. They believed that their long hair acted as cosmic antennae to receive alien communication from beyond. In public, however, they hardly ever exhibited the hair in horse tail style. For identification, Vril members (also called “Vrilerinnen”) wore a disk which represented the two mediums: Maria Orsic and Sigrun.

In December 1919 a small group of persons from Thule, Vril and DHvSS (Men of the black stone) rented a small forester’s lodge in the vicinity of Berchtesgaden (Germany) where they met, accompanied by Maria Orsic and another medium who is only known as Sigrun. Maria claimed to have received mediumistically transmissions in a secret German Templar script – a language unknown to her – containing technical data for the construction of a flying machine. Vril documents mention these telepathic messages had their origin in Aldebaran, a solar system 68 light-years away in the constellation Taurus. She had two piles of papers: one with the Templar script, the other with a legible writing. Maria suspected the second pile would be written in an ancient eastern language and therefore she could be aided by the “Panbabylonists”, a circle close to the Thule society which was integrated by Hugo Winckler, Peter Jensen, Friedrich Delitzsch and others. It turned out that the apparently misterious language was actually ancient Summerian and hence the language of the ancient Babylonian culture founders. Sigrun, from the Vril gesellschaft helped translate the language and decipher the strange mental images of a circular flight machine.

The concept of “other science” (or “alternative science”) matured in this time and the following years. Because of the financing difficulties it took three years until the flying machine project started taking shape. By 1922, parts for the machine began arriving independently from various industrial sources paid in full by Thule and Vril.

In late November 1924 she visited Rudolf Hess in his apartment in Munich, together with Rudolf von Sebottendorf, the founder of the Thule Gesellschaft. Sebottendorf wanted to contact Dietrich Eckart, who had deceased one year before. Eckert had translated Ibsen’s plays into German and had published the magazine “Auf gut Deutsch”; he had also been a member of the Thule Gesellschaft. To establish contact with Eckart, Sebottendorff and other Thulists (amongst them Ernst Schulte-Strathauss) joined hands around a black-draped table.

Kolberg in 1940
Kolberg in 1940

Hess found unnerving to watch Maria Orsic’s eyeballs rolling back and showing only whites, and to see her slumping backward in her chair, mouth agape. However Sebottendorff smiled in satisfaction as the voice of Eckart started coming out of the medium. Eckart announced that he was obliged to let someone else’s voice come through, with an important message. A weird voice then identified itself as “the Sumi, dwellers of a distant world, which orbits the star Aldebaran in the constellation you call Taurus the Bull”. Hess and Schulte-Strathaus blinked at each other in surprise. According to the voice, the Sumi were an humanoid race who had briefly colonized Earth 500 million years ago. The ruins of ancient Larsa, Shurrupak and Nippur in Iraq had been built by them. Those of them who survived the great flood of Ut-napishtim (the Deluge of Noah’s Ark) had become the ancestors of the Aryan race. Sebottendorff remained skeptical and asked for proof. While Maria was still in a trance, she scribbled several lines of queer-looking marks. Those marks turned out to be ancient Summerian characters, the language of the founders of the oldest Babylonian culture.

In December 1943 Maria attended, together with Sigrun, a meeting held by Vril at the seaside resort of Kolberg. The main purpose of the meeting was to deal with the “Aldebaran project”. The Vril mediums had received precise information regarding the habitable planets around the sun Aldebaran and they were willing to plan a trip there. This project was discussed again the 22nd January 1944 in a meeting between Hitler, Himmler, Dr. W. Schumann (scientist and professor in the Technical University of Munich) and Kunkel of the Vril Gesellschaft. It was decided that a Vril 7 “Jäger” would be sent through a dimension channel independent of the speed of light to Aldebaran. According to N. Ratthofer (writer), a first test flight in the dimension channel took place in late 1944. The test flight almost ended in disaster because after the flight the Vril 7 looked “as if it had been flying for a hundred years”. Its outer skin looked aged and had suffered damages in several places.

Maria Orsic disappeared in 1945. The 11th of March of 1945 an internal document of the Vril Gesellschaft was sent to all its members; a letter written by Maria Orsic. The letter ends: “niemand bleibt hier” (noone is staying here). This was the last announcement from Vril, and since then noone heard again from Maria or the rest of members. It is speculated they escaped to Aldebaran.

Wes Penre’s note: There will be more information regarding Maria Orsic and her direct involvement in current events on the final blog site.


A. Marco – Vril, ovnis y sociedades secretas
Barry Taylor – Vril Society “The Yellow Book” no. 5
Joseph Trainor – UFO Roundup, 10-6
Wikipedia – Vril
Various authors – Vril Gesellschaft (Politik Forum)
N. Ratthofer – Das Vril Projekt
Mental Ray – Vril Geist

203 thoughts on “Maria Orsic and the Vril Society

  1. Pingback: Maria Orsic and the Vril Society – Kaivalyananda

  2. Mike

    Maria Orsic (1895-?), for those who are not familiar with her name, was, supposedly, a Croatian medium who became a significant power behind the throne in Nazi Germany and is, nowadays, a prominent figure in the modern mythology which suggests that Nazi power was built on an obsession with, and successful mastery of, the occult. Various recent accounts present her as leader of the Vril Society, a sort of black lodge of magicians which supposedly helped Hitler to power, and was strongly connected to various other alleged mysteries of the period, such as UFOs and Nikola Tesla’s search for free energy sources.

    However, Orsic (who also crops up online as Marija Oršić and Maria Orsitch) NEVER existed. There are NO contemporary accounts at all to suggest such a woman lived during the Nazi period, much less possessed any influence or occult power. Both Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke, the longtime professor of Western Esotericism at the University of Exeter, and the Dutch researcher Theo Paijmans – two authorities whose work on the occult esoterica of the period I believe can be relied on – date her first appearances to German-language neo-Nazi videotapes circulated in the late 1980s and to books based on the same distasteful source material that appeared in Austria after 1990, and suggest she was the invention of a pair of far-right wing occultists, Norbert Jürgen-Ratthofer and Ralf Ettl. The key claim made by Jürgen-Ratthofer and Ettl – that Orsic was real and that her existence is proved by mention of her in a 1930 pamphlet Vril: Die Kosmiche Ukraft. Wiedergeburt von Atlantis [Vril: the Cosmic Primal Force. Rebirth of Atlantis] – IS FALSE; the pamphlet exists, but it contains NO mention of the medium. Various images supposed to depict Orsic that pop up all over the place on the internet have been shown to be composites. Similarly, the long list of purported contemporary sources offered by an author calling himself Maximillien de Lafayette, who is one of the main boosters of the various conspiracy theories that have Orsic at their centres – ranging from the “huge files” on her supposedly maintained in the archives of the OSS, the NKVD, and “the British Occult Bureau, an official branch of MI5” all the way to “Eva Peron’s correspondence with Maria” – appears to be pure invention from first to last.

    To begin this convoluted tale at the beginning: the idea of “vril”, a supposedly potent occult energy source, antedates the Nazi period. It was actually the invention of Edward Bulwer Lytton (1803-1873; a successful Victorian-era novelist possibly best-remembered today for beginning his 1830 novel Paul Clifford with the immortal phrase “It was a dark and stormy night”), who based most of the plot of his final book, The Coming Race (1873) around it. In Lytton’s imagination, vril was, in Paijman’s words, “an all-pervading, immensely powerful source of energy,” resembling electricity, “which can either heal or destroy”. In The Coming Race, Vril is used by an advanced civilization, whom Lytton called the Vril-Ya, to power the technologically advanced civilization which they create inside a hollow Earth. Vril energy, however, did far more than just act as a surrogate for electricity or coal or gas. In Lytton’s imagination it could also exercise “influence over minds and bodies animal and mystical, to an extent not surpassed in the romance of our mystics.” Just the thing, in short, that any self-respecting totalitarian dictatorship might value to keep itself in power, and a potentially recalcitrant population well in check.

    Lytton’s ideas did not remain confined to fiction for long. They were quickly co-opted by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, who remains well-known as the founder of the theosophical movement; she incorporated a chapter titled “The coming force” into her The Secret Doctrine (1888) and suggested that “vril” was simply another name for the energy force termed “Mash-Mak” that she believed had once powered Atlantis. It was thanks largely to Blavatsky’s influential writings that Lytton’s work of fiction went on to have a long life in occult circles. One late manifestation of the idea, Paijmans notes, came in the form of a small and decidedly uninfluential pamphlet, Vril: Die Kosmiche Ukraft, which appeared in late Weimar-era Berlin under the imprint of the small specialist publisher Astrologische Verlag Wilhelm Becker.

    So far as we know, this pamphlet had absolutely zero impact in its day, and there is certainly nothing in the contemporary record to suggest that it was ever read, much less believed in, by any of the long list of prominent Nazis whose attempts to make use of Vril-power are described in such triumphal terms today in various murky corners of the web. However, the publication did somehow come to the attention of the German science fiction writer Willy Ley, and it was Ley’s recollection of it, in the late 1950s, that provided inspiration for a pair of French writers, François Pauwels and Jacques Bergier, who incorporated Vril into their Le Matin des Magiciens, a best-seller first published in France in 1960. This book – in English translation as The Morning of the Magicians (AKA The Dawn of Magic) – became one of the foundational texts of the 1960s counter-culture and played a major role in introducing the idea – inaccurate but influential – that the Nazis had successfully sought to harness the occult in the course of their rise to power.

    The version of events peddled by Jürgen-Ratthofer and Ettl owes a good deal to The Morning of the Magicians, but takes the speculation a good deal further than even Pauwels and Bergier did. According to the two Austrians, Vril first came to the attention of the first Nazis as a result of the work of the German occultist Adam Glauer, who – under the name Rudolf von Sebottendorf – helped to found an organization known as the Thule Society in Germany in 1916. This group has attracted a good deal of attention, retrospectively, because in 1919 its leaders were early supporters of the DAP, or German Workers’ Party, which would soon become the NSDAP, or Nazis. According to Jürgen-Ratthofer and Ettl, however, when the Thule Society became involved in promoting the communist Räterepublik which briefly ruled in Bavaria in the chaos of the post-war period, it was Maria Orsic who led a group of right-wing members to secede and form the Vril Society. It was, thus, her group that made contact with the Nazis during the early 1920s, and which ultimately provide the Nazi state with the means to escape destruction in 1945 and flee to specially-constructed, Vril-powered bases in Antarctica from which they continued to monitor developments in the Cold War world using craft that we identify as UFOs – flying machines that had been built to plans that Orsic channelled from beings who lived on a distant planet.

    There is, you may not be entirely surprised to hear, literally NO contemporary evidence for any of these claims. It’s all made up by creative and talented fantasy/sci-fi writers and then co-opted (or downright stolen) by people who want to make a name for themselves by convincing people they have secret knowledge or trying to form exclusive groups or societies based around this information. This is a repeating pattern, unfortunately.

  3. Pingback: Maria Orsitsch, médium de contatos Extraterrestres da Sociedade Vril nazista | REDE BARRETO

  4. Pingback: Maria Orsitsch, Médium De Contatos Extraterrestres Da Sociedade Vril Nazista – Brasil No Caos

  5. Much like the idea of never trying to attempt to teach a pig, it is always a good idea to never feed trolls. The same applies to frogs. LOL

    Anyone who wants to contact me for an intelligent and cogent exchange, not an ignorant and prejudice one like from the troll frog in here, simply e-mail me directly.

    I have various forums with which I (and others) spread higher awareness and it is always a good idea never to limit oneself to just one outlet.


    1. iamlonefrog

      Lovely child,

      You just can’t keep your foot out of the derp.

      It is no secret that the intelligence of Sus domesticus has not been in question for quite some time. However, your comprehensive prowess is slowly eroding with every comment you post. If you don’t recognize the intelligence of a simple farm animal, how can anyone expect anything more from you?

      As far as expecting an intelligent and cogent “exchange” free of ignorance and prejudice from Higher Light Church, consider yourself warned.

      Ehh….tha-tha-tha-that’s all folks!

  6. Maria Orsic was hired by the Nazis to be their psychic medium. Like one would hire an astrologer. She had genuine intuitive insight. This did not make her evil. Moreover, she did not partake in Roman style orgies with Nazis officers or in satanic rituals. At the end of the second world war, many high-ranking Nazi officers – and Hitler himself – decided to cleverly escape to a Nordic-defended, underground Nazi base in Antarctica – which still exists. Maria and company wished to go as well but were rejected by the Nazi high command. Consequently, Maria did what many do when faced with homelessness and starvation at the end of a war that left the nearby cities demolished: she committed suicide. Thus, Maria Orsic did not die a Nazi. So all this discussion on the Net about Maria Orsic having led a Nazi witch cult is utter nonsense. She was a psychic medium, nothing more, nothing less.

    1. Ron

      Hello there,

      Antartica?? Well who would come up with such a splendid idea?? Well folks and all you historians out there is time that we all rewrite the end of WW2. Hitler and his gang was never in the bunker in Berlin. He was freezing his ass off with the Polar bears in Antartica.
      Thanks for enlightning us all, I Always Wonder why I could not add up the end of WW2!! Well got to go now, have a deadline too Catch!! “Stop the press” here comes the scoop of a lifetime.

      1. Ron…They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Time to end some of your ignorance. Are you truly ready for it?

        There were over one-hundred German submarines that went unaccounted for at the end of the Second World War. Many Nazi officers escaped. Many of them formed an alliance with the fascist Nordics (i.e., genetically-engineered Homo sapiens) who have a large city underneath what we think of as Antarctica. The Antarctica Nazis who constructed a base inside a cavern below the ice did not share with the American government the technology that they learned from the Nordics. After the war, the purpose of Operation Highjump (1946-1947), under the leadership of Admiral Richard E. Byrd, was to destroy that Nazi base.

        Admiral Byrd’s coalition fleet consisted of:

        * An aircraft carrier;

        * Twelve surface ships;

        * One submarine;

        * More than twenty planes and helicopters; and,

        * About five-thousand people on staff.

        Operation Highjump didn’t go well. The planned six month campaign only lasted two months. The Nordics intervened on the side of the Nazis and severely damaged Admiral Byrd’s coalition troops and ships with gravity wave propelled airships and energy projection weapons. Admiral Byrd was forced to order a full retreat from the Antarctic coast.

        Nordics use the same gravity wave propulsion systems – explained by Robert Lazar – as The Reticulan/Zetan Empire.

        Admiral Byrd’s coalition forces lost:

        * A naval destroyer;

        * Almost half of their carrier based aircraft; and,

        * Dozens of sailors and officers.

        The Battle of Antarctica is explained in this Russian documentary:


        Source:Declassified KGB Nazi Maps Confirm the Existence of Subterranean Breakaway Civilizations in Antarctica:

        There are warm waters underneath Antarctica. Hitler and the other Nazis leaders didn’t freeze their butts off in frigid temperatures. Quite the contrary. They basked in underground warmth and stealth, and under the protection of the Nordics fascists who have a large underground city and advance Reticulan military technology.

        The Neo-Nazis are still there, as well as the Nordics.

        You can no longer claim ignorance on this subject and make foolish remarks about something that you now know something about.

        1. David Paulson

          I think you actually believe that nonsense..There were no ” hundreds of u-boats ” unaccounted for after WWII. There were a handful at best and most of those were presumed sunk by various reasons. There are/were many ways for a sub to sink, not all battle related. Know what you are talking about. Like you said “a little knowledge” can be dangerous.

        2. Mr Happy

          It’s hard or nearly impossible to discuss with people, who are under mind control since birth.

          it takes time to understand, that secrets are hiding important truth, and for sure most manipulated people can’t accept this truth!

          soon, everyone will no, and not everyone is going into the future

      2. Vanguardian

        Ron, you are scarey: Oh wow! Thanks for showing us under your skirt. You DO know that to date no polar bears have ever been found in Antarctica right? -_-

    2. Daniel Sciortino

      You may be right, however, do you have anything to prove your assertions? Like a source? I’m kinda fickle in that way. Thank you.

      1. Daniel…You stated: You may be right, however, do you have anything to prove your assertions? Like a source? I’m kinda fickle in that way. Thank you.

        My reply: I do in-depth research – check the reference links I posted in here – and then I use logical extrapolation and intuition. Any good analyst knows that there were 100 Nazi submarines that went missing at the end of WW2, that Operation Highjump to destroy a Nazi base in Antarctica occurred, that Nordic fascists who have not just a base underneath Antarctica but a CITY, successfully defended the Nazi base by defeating Byrd’s coalition fleet and troops with their much greater military prowess – stemming from advanced Reticulan-alien technology.

        As to the soul of Maria Orsic herself, I am also a spiritual medium in my own right – just look at my website – and awareness about her suicide at the end of the war was given to me directly from her.After she died she became part of my metaphysical fellowship on the Other Side. In recent months she has become one of my guides, offering INTEL about the Nordics and Neo-Nazis. That is why my opinion about all this has changed from my earlier post about it. At first I hypothesized that she escaped to the secret Nazi base. She later clarified that Vril was rejected by the Nazi high command and that she subsequently committed suicide at the end of the war.

        1. Something


          I somewhat believe you, but what do they eat, what is their goal of being there. Must be miserable living in underground for your whole life

    3. “Nazi” is a jewish created slur word based on the low German word for “simpleton”. Please refrain from using it. The correct term is National Socialist, you can shorten to NatSoc if you wish.
      Rather than believe jewish propaganda, do your own research. There were no ritualized “Roman style orgies” in the Third Reich, for those you can look into Berlin in the Weimar Republic. And the only ones worshipping “satan” are the jews, who are descendants of the cult of moloch.

      Maria Orsic was a proud National Socialist, and why shouldn’t she be? Look around at the world today and tell me how great it is. Even our wonderful technological achievements are being used by the likes of Zuckerberg at faceborg to turn our children into fat, lazy, gender confused, mentally unstable, unhappy people who deem motherhood and parenting to be evil. And there is your reason for the increase in suicide.

      1. skorzecin150…

        Let’s analyze a number of your points.

        You stated: “Nazi” is a jewish created slur word based on the low German word for “simpleton”.

        The word “Nazi” is an abbreviation for the word “Nationalsozialist”. The full name of the political party was the “Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei” – the National Socialist German Worker’s Party. It’s worth noting that, within Germany at the time, the word “Nazi” was a homnym for “Naczi” which was an insulting term for a “foolish clumsy person”, so the term wasn’t actually used by the Nazi’s to describe themselves. Since the late 1930s, however, the term “Nazi” has come to symbolise what that party became, rather than having connotations of “national” or for that matter “socialist.” Source:

        It makes sense that the word “Nazi” is similar to a low German word for “simpleton” – especially during and after the Second World War. But the more common understanding of the word “Nazi” is not that at all, but is derived from the word “Nazism” which is well defined around the world and on the Net.

        For example..

        It is true that many Jewish spirits in yellow-energy Group Entities have been very cruel to me over the years, with many of them going to hell on a regular basis, and that many Jews (in the Spirit and in the flesh) are in fact pompous and egotistical, and consider themselves superior to everyone else, Regardless, I am an objective historian who doesn’t wish to change the established record simply because someone doesn’t like a decades-known term about a highly efficient, yet highly corrupt German military and fascistic government that no longer exists. To be fair, it may still exist underneath Antarctica, allied with that Nordic city which is also fascistic.

        You stated: Maria Orsic was a proud National Socialist, and why shouldn’t she be?

        It makes sense that Maria Orsic was a proud National Socialist, given the political environment of Germany in the 1930’s and into the 1940’s.

        However, even proud National Socialists are not immune to committing suicide. Sometimes it is a viable solution. But only when nothing can be improved upon from sticking around and continuing to struggle.

        For example, within past-life regression research I remember reading the account of an American prisoner of war (POW) in a Japanese concentration camp during WW2. The Allied forces, led by the Americans, were advancing on the position and the Japanese guards decided to start killing the prisoners before the camp was overrun. The American POW decided to eat broken glass to escape being murdered by the Japanese. After his death, an angelic being of light appeared to him and said that he will not be punished for taking his life, as he was forced into it, but that those responsible – the Japanese guards – will be punished for it later on (after their death).

        Moreover, the non-living Light of God that judges all after bodily death, whether we believe in it or not, also considers acts of selflessness, like throwing oneself on a live grenade to save one or more buddies, to be heroic. Or if one unwittingly succumbs to smoke inhalation from trying to save someone in a burning building. Those people are not punished either with frustrated feelings from throwing one’s life away.

        Comedic genius Robin Williams was not punished for committing suicide because he had a degenerative brain disease that could not be overcome. Thus, Maria Orsic was not punished for committing suicide because, in having been rejected by the Nazi high command who escaped (including Hitler, with a successful cover-up that made it look like he committed suicide) Maria had very little options available to her as Germany at the end of the war was in a state of environmental and economic collapse.

        1. iamlonefrog

          Well defined and then proceeds to use wikipedia, is this a joke? National Zionist, it was common knowledge until a certain group started redefining history, No german ever used the term Swastika either, they called it the hookenkrauss, it was their version of the tetragrammaton.

            1. iamlonefrog

              Spare me your Merriams, Oxfords and Britanica’s. They change their information from decade to decade slowly burying the truth. You sir may want to ask yourself who also provided us with Black’s or Bouvier’s law dictionaries, and who currently owns them now. Hint hint, they also have full control of Canada’s biggest national newspaper. Don’t get me started on Black’s history, another degenerate stomping out humanity.

              Yup, it’s me attempting to change history, all by my lonesome and not some billionaire family that has to print up there own internal news memo just to keep track of (((their))) investments. You fukkin derp.

              I can’t fathom Wiki? I know exactly what to expect from that website and no respectable researcher would ever source that bunk. You are showing your stripes by slinging about ad hominem attacks and ultimately providing me with your weakness. So on that note, carry on, I’ll just have to black your other eye.

            2. iamlonefrong…I am unscathed and find this exchange rather amusing. I’ve debated the best and you are not even close to being in that category. Furthermore, even without Wikipdia, since you totally discount all the sources that are considered credible then you are in fact coming from a perspective of ignorance and prejudice. I have no need to debate people like that. I only wish to share ideas with those who have the ability to think logically and objectively, which is beyond you. See how far you go with pushing your prejudice and ignorance. See how much you can change the truth about the past. Yeah…good luck with that. :LOL

    1. Get it right mate: The Black Sun (German: Schwarze Sonne) is a Nazi symbol, a type of sun wheel (German: Sonnenrad) employed in a post–Nazi Germany context by neo-Nazis and in some strains of Satanism. The symbol’s design consists of twelve radial sig runes, similar to the symbols employed by the SS in their logo. It first appeared in Nazi Germany as a design element in a castle at Wewelsburg remodeled and expanded by the head of the SS, Heinrich Himmler, which he intended to be a center for the SS.

  7. Jeffrey

    As some of you here might agree, there is a God, which for me, is the Energy Stream of Life, consciousness and awareness and that it is the only thing that exists. There also was One known as Jesus and now called many names for which I will use the name Jeshua. God and Jeshua never went silent. Why would they? Never turned their backs on human beings. No reason for that to ever happen. Inspiration is real and it has never stopped and never will. Communications, messages, facts and truths are all available to us. Jeshua speaks to us in many ways and one way is through human partners. Some call this Channeling. Some channels bring about much truth and facts as well as some of their own ideas, thoughts and feelings blended in. Some are more clean, pure and clear and most of what comes through them is as good as it gets and is important, special, needed and factual. I have read hundreds of transcripts of the Jeshua sessions through Judith Coates and I am sure and convinced of who it is coming through her. I flew out west to sit in on a monthly session, which are never advertised or marketed in any way. There is usually the same 10 – 20 regulars there. Jeshua speaks about something He knows is important to us and then opens it up for questions put to him. He shows that he knows what is on your mind and what you wish to speak about even before you say anything. He has proven in those transcripts that He knows your whole life, minute by minute, moment to moment, all of it. Judith lives some 3000 miles from me and there is no way she can know anything about me and my life. There is not a psychic anywhere who can bring forth such detailed facts about a person’s WHOLE life and the lifetimes previous. There have been healings at these sessions also. There are never any predictions shared, because as Jeshua says, we can change course in any moment and choose something new, personally and collectively. He has answered just about every question a human being can come up with about His famous life here on Earth and most all other subjects. When I go to various sites online and especially Youtube where there is lots of conversations and arguing going on under each video subject, I am not arguing based on my opinions, ideas and feelings about things, but always from the knowledge and facts that come from Jeshua through Judith. I cannot afford to fly out west and speak to HIM everytime I want to learn about something that is fascinating to me and important such as Maria Orsic and the Vril Society and what they may have accomplished and what happened to them around 1945 or later, but if there is anyone here reading this and also fascinated with such history subject matter, who is living on or near the West Coast of the USA or who can afford to fly there to Washington State, we can all hear and learn all the facts and truths about Maria, her life, the inventions, the contact with Higher Beings and what became of her by visiting with Judith and paying her for a session with Jeshua. One day I might be able to do this, but right now I cannot with two children in college and my father’s health going downhill fast. I believe that you can also even have such a session over the phone as I did a year or so ago, but it seems Judith at times is not interested in continuing such sessions of a private nature. We do have to also deal with timelines and alternate realities which are very real and to learn about them is a bit depressing, because depending on the timeline or realiity visited or experienced, something may be true and can also be untrue and false. Jeshua will not even argue with those who claim he was never crucified, stating that maybe in a previous lifetime they were there during his life and witnessed a totally different outcome for His life. I am thankful to have found this site/page, people here and for the opportunity to share my understandings, thoughts and feelings on this incredible subject that is Maria Orsic. It kills me that we cannot have photos of such people from days past……

    1. The power to create billions of galaxies translates into the power to heal millions of people at once of terminal affliction and/or deformity. No prophet in history – including Jesus/Issa/Yuz Asaf – ever managed to pull that off. Simply because no prophet in history truly represented the rarefied Space God, The Original Creator/Lord Alpha Omega, who used the non-living higher power on the Other Side, The Light of God, to manifest The Big Bang.

      What this points to is a validation that the Deists were right all along. That once the universe was created, the Intelligent Designer pulled back and did not get actively involved. That the First Coming has yet to occur.

      We will know beyond a shadow of doubt that the First Coming is happening when millions of people are being healed at once. Then we will all be of the One True Religion. No contest. No one can duplicate that level of spiritual energy in The Light.

      Compassion is the barometer of divinity. When there is no compassion, there is no divinity.

      Thousands upon thousands of people have prayed to Jesus in the Middle East and elsewhere when they were at the hands of Jihadists (Muslim extremist terrorists). No divine intervention came. It still doesn’t. Victims are sold into slavery, butchered, gang raped, burned to death, beheaded, and crucified. This points to Jesus not being a god or the son of a God, only a prophet, and that the whole Jesus Son of God paradigm is complete nonsense. A false god paradigm that is furthered by collectives of inferior, yellow-energy spirits who demand to be worshiped as GOD.

      Highly evolved souls neither need or require worship. Only the spiritually inferior demand worship. Thus, any temple, mosque, synagogue, church, etc. that has worship in it is empowered by one or more group entities of inferior spirits. We must recognize this and grow beyond the group entity mindset so that we may eventually fulfill the meaning of life as The Original Creator defined it: to evolve into becoming stable lesser gods. We can’t do that and channel group entity energies. The highest mountain must be walked alone and we must emulate the approach that He developed to evolve into god realization, that takes years, and which has come to be called Heart Chakra Radiance/God Yoga:

      1. Jeffrey

        It can take years and many lifetimes or it can happen at once, as it has for many people who do not seek publicity or speak of their experiences whatsoever. Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev has spoken about his experience and his Inner Engineering process has helped others to reach Realizastion of Oneness, the One and Only thing that exists and they experienced themselves as that One thing losing all identification and knowledge of the personality, person, mind, heart and passions they held as the individual they thought themselves to be. It is not about work, years, study or effort. In his TED TALKS Speech he explains what happened and it is the same exact experience that Jeshua (Jesus) has stated that happened to him during those so-called 40 days and nights he spent alone in the wilderness. He says it was more like 10 days, not 40 that we have been told. You can read about that in the book Jesus and Mastership sold at I agree and feel good about most of what you have shared here. I asked the owner of this site to delete my comments after I posted them. Sadly, everyone has got to find their own way and yet when we find it we feel a huge desire and need to shout from the rooftops and share it all. This never works ever. Peace!

      2. Jeffrey

        There will NEVER be a mass healing or some sort of “Coming” of God or Jesus or anyone else. The Christ Energy is what makes a comeback, not a person or being. When you speak, try and speak in a way that is simply showing an opinion. Because that is all you offer, an opinion. You don’t know any truth or have any facts. Share your Source, if you in fact feel that you have all the truth and all the facts on every subject! I shared my Source above and nobody can knock it down, but they can try. And that would be hilarious. Like I said previously, there is a Creator or Creative Source of Energy that is Conscious and Aware of itself and all of it’s creation or expressions. And that Energy Stream of Consciousness has never gone silent and in fact does speak to us and can do so in many ways…..of course. And the same with the One known as Jesus. Never went silent, never went away and simply changed form. And of course there are many others, Masters and so forth on Higher Levels who do communicate with humans. Where do you think the internet came from? God realization does NOT take years….but it can. And it can happen in an instant. You forgot to mention that! Yellow Energy spirits? Say what? Share your source or proof of such nonsense! LOL….just so you know, Jesus and others did not and never did heal anyone because they wanted to and never healed a person who’s soul was not ready or wanting a healing experience. You make it sound like Jesus and God and others cannot participate in a mass, huge healing situation. How stupid and idiotic is that! Healings happen when a Soul desires it and is finished with the current life experience or the goals and life experience it was choosing to experience. This is the only reason God and Jesus and others do not just simply step in and FIX things, especially the things we would call disgusting and sick. Those souls are wanting that experience and we all need to leave them alone and have their chosen experience. Here is another Hint for you….Prayers never work because people don’t know how to pray! Period. People pray as they were taught or told to, which is to beg and plead and ASK for what they WANT, instead of offering a prayer of THANKS for that which they have and that which they hope to have happen to them. That is the only reason prayers are not answered. There is nobody to answer a prayer outside of You. We are God having these seemingly individual experiences and expressing, expanding choice after choice after choice. None of it is bad or wrong. There is no such thing. It is all life experience. I am not trying to teach anyone anything and I do in fact have more to explore and learn. BUT I stand by my Source and dare anyone to try and prove that my Source or well of knowledge does not exist, is wrong or is some evil “interference” as the church, the preachers and priests love to state. If it is not from the bible then it is not from God….or so they say. LOL

        1. It all boils down to levels of energy in The Light. The power to create galaxies, the power of The Original Creator, translates into the power to heal millions at once. Jesus couldn’t pull that off because he was just a prophet and not representative of The Original Creator, who has yet to come – just as the Deists espouse. This is a sound and logical argument. Now come up with a better argument, one that makes more sense, and state it concisely as I have. Good luck with that.

      3. iamlonefrog

        Saint Angelicus? Churches that don’t worship could never anoint anyone a saint, what a joke. Or oxymoron, both are the same in this instance.

        Yer 0 fer 2 Avadar!

        1. iamlonefrog….Ah…so you wish to attack my metaphysical understanding directly. Fine by me. Give it your best shot.

          You stated: Saint Angelicus? Churches that don’t worship could never anoint anyone a saint, what a joke. Or oxymoron, both are the same in this instance.

          What ignorance!

          I answer this mainly for those in this forum who may have a sincere interest in knowing my response to this attack.

          Sainthood, the real kind, is not dictated by twisted, corrupt, and antiquated physical churches, mosques, synagogues, etc. It is dictated by a certain degree of spiritual evolution that goes beyond the collectivistic mindset of inferior spirits – the kind that demand worship.

          Only cheap, primitive, inferior spirits demand worship. Truly advanced souls neither need or demand worship. That is an easy way to discern if a religion is truly divine. If there is worship, then that worship is being sucked up and furthered by collectives of inferior spirits, not by an ascended soul, god, or God.

          Which is why all the traditional religions have greatly lessened over the years and why they have had so many problems with pedophilia within them. It is due to the fact that they all are astrally powered and empowered by group entities of inferior spirits.

          There is a big difference between being spiritual and being religious, and most who are in the latter category are not among the former.


          1. iamlonefrog

            Oh dear, sweet Avaderp,

            Avaderp: – “Truly advanced souls neither need or demand worship.”

            How true, but this begs the question, How was Angelica ever anointed a Saint (of this church you have provided a link for) in the first place?

            Furthermore, who do you suggest decides when one has reached this certain degree of “evolution” that culminates in sainthood?


            Well of course it’s not you silly, or any of us, INCLUDING the one who ended up being named a saint. Unless of course that saint is in possession of a forked tongue. Ostentatiously, you have reminded me of this nugget in spite of your desire to appear otherwise.

            Besides, you are merely regurgitating your previous comments.

            If I am not mistaken, traditional religions have not lessened (within the manner of which you would like others to believe) rather they have metamorphosed into “Big Government”. Government is now the open religion of the masses whether they acknowledge it or not, a wet dream for all leaders of the current Cystem. Which in turn would increase the situational awareness of pediphilia.

            At minimum you mislead, which is by no means an admirable trait to possess. If someone is looking to be led, they need to look no further than you or the saints of the churches you link them to. While others connect the dots, recognize the patterns and overstand the dynamics in order to avoid people like you. Now, based upon whether you do this wittingly or will determine the amount of disgust I have for you. So far I have you at about a 3.2 out of 10 on the cringe scale.Merely because you haven’t done anything yet of consequence other than push your rancid belief cystem. The masses however are pretty apathetic to that type of behavior by now. Thanks to an overwhelming push of controlled information/media.

      4. You are completely lost and wrong when it comes to Jesus and God. By what you wrote you know absolutely NOTHING about them! The Father the Son and the Holy ghost are one and the same. I believe you are a Evil worker. Spreading lies and deceit. Nobody should beleive ANYTHING that comes from your EVIL mouth.

    2. Jeffrey,
      It doesn’t matter what name your “GOD” goes by, you just need to believe in Her or Him. When “Armageddon” happens you will KNOW your “GOD”.
      May your GOD be with you and I wish you a good life,

  8. Pingback: 23 – Vril

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  10. L.A.West

    It is my belief – that as much as they, Maria and Others, would have liked to have gone to an Alien Solar System – but couldn’t. Metallurgy sciences weren’t the Vril UFO Crafts has shown – and I also suspect that the device known as the “BELL” was somehow a part of the inter-dimensional capabilities of the VRIL Craft – and it was proven to be very unstable and dangerous, as it bent time, dimension and space around it. The allies got a hold of one these things being tested and developed further – only there was no operating manuals, instructions and the NAZI scientist involved with that were all dead… and when the American and Allied forces took back to the states and tinkered with it – disaster was the reward. The continually toyed with the design and back engineered it- to understand more what it was that the NAZI’s had developed – and it was DARK MAGIC – AND SCIENCE Blended together. Real VooDoo Science at that time. MARIA had really tapped into a comic conscious and another Alien Race. Remember – that during the Sumerian Epoch – the Anunnaki were said to have come from another world… ( Sitchen ) and it was they who created human society, complete with slavery and interbreeding with human females and everything. Human Beings until their arrival had been Simian like hunter- gatherers – they they were culled, and genetically modified time after time until the Anunnaki had a somewhat intelligent subservient slave race to do as they wanted. As well as SEX SLAVES because it this interbreeding that bore the Giant Races. The Anunnaki were Giants as well compared to the new race of man. It was them who were directly responsible for the megalithic stone architectures around the globe… from the Great Pyramid, the Massive Stella’s, the Stone Foundations of Baalbek, to Puma Punku… and apparently this was going on one hell of lot further back than modern scholars and historians are willing to wrap the puny brains around. 500+ million years ago would have still seen Dinosaurs and Mega Fauna roaming around on Earth. Also- are the YETI’s and BigFoot Animals left overs from that time of early experimentation? Were the Anunnaki responsible in some manner for a global environmental catastrophe that caused the Great Flood – complete with Noah getting warnings to prepare a floating super bunker and carry in it – all the genetic material, scientists, animal husbandman, and horticulturist’s, to re-seed the world again because the coming storm was going to be a whopper of unimaginable scale? I think so. The Epic Indian Vedas tell of wars between Super Beings in flying UFO’s – Vimana’s – who used terrible deadly weapons, and ultimately Nuclear Bombs which is the story behind Sodom and Gomorrah. It is these same Super Beings that gave birth to forced religious worship which filtered down to the Pharaoh’s, Aztec’s and Mayan’s. The progenitor of All Ancient Egyptian God worship was Anubis – who was a real being – and not from Earth – but from the Star’s of Orion. The Sphinx was actually a model of Him! So what happened? How come these beings left, or perhaps couldn’t get back, and then just died out or were murdered by man? It my hypotheses that these descendants of the travelers, the actual Anunnaki blood line, the Cone Heads, were systematically wiped out because they were brutal Slave masters… to wit – the Aztec and Mayan’s who were blood and flesh lusting cannibals. I think this was this going on in Egypt and what in now Iraq and Iran too – and if for any reason, an overlord didn’t like you and you weren’t slaving hard enough to suit them – you ended up on the Hors d’oeuvre table. I mean common on now – Ramesses the Great had 1000’s of concubines! He fathered 1000’s of children. That’s one hell of a lot of laying around and balling your eyes out! And he still had time to go to war and vanquish his enemies? So what happened to these kids, and more especially, those aging out concubines? Retirement or was it perhaps the Rotisserie? It was said that he loved all of his Wives, Concubines and Children – because they were so lip smacking delicious and the gravy was savory too! THIS THEN isn’t the side of Egyptology you’re being schooled in- is it? That sure would drive you with incentives to bust your hump seven days a week wouldn’t it? Most Egyptian workers only lived to be around 24 years old, and they were spent, broken and more than likely eaten. Only the really special deserving ones were buried in the desert in un-royal holes in the ground. So – was this the trip to the Aldebaran System going to be a great vacation for Maria Orsic and her Merry Band of Trans-mentalist’s? Imagine what was then laying at the end of the line for them, had they actually had a craft that could have warped time and space to deliver them safe and sound to the waiting meat grinder in time for celebratory dinner featuring Human Ka-Bobs! NO indeed – they left via one or two working Haunebu Crafts for New Swabia, Argentina, Venezuela, Brazil or Chile. Keep in mind, when American and British forces went to Seek Out and Destroy any NAZI’s on the Antarctic Continent – they were met by a foe who had weaponry they couldn’t match and left with their balls kicked and tails between their legs… and this still remains a largely closed chapter in the historical record of what actually happened there… UFO’s were seen all over South America for decades following the War, and the looked exactly like the VRIL-Haunebu Crafts. These same crafts were seen up the west coast of the USA and some surmise, a few of them were confiscated and made operational early models of the Haunebu Crafts being back engineered and further perfected by the SPOOK WORKS CIA and US Air Force. Today we have the TR-3 b Flying Anti-Gravity Triangle Craft as well as other super spooky secret flying craft. Do we have OFF WORLD or Alien space craft too? Probably. I think, that Maria and her gang messing around with communicating with alien entities, opened up a portal and a direct channel for inter-stellar beings to once again find their way here – and let’s keep in mind here too – the Black Knight UFO-Satellite, which is supposedly 30 – 40 Thousand Years old is now and has been monitoring us – for what purposes is unknown – and we can’t investigate it ( or have we and what we found it is terrifying ) as the thing disappears and the reappears somewhere else. Is it responsible for crop circle communication? I bet it is. And what of the UFO’s we see that cannot be explained? OH yeah, they’re here, and they’re taking cruise ship tours of the Earth, as some of these things are absolutely massive – with windows, and beings looking out. I have a hunch that Maria – was found – and she lived out her days in either the USA or Canada, under a different name, teaching and helping to further the study of her other worldly connections and space crafts – until she died. She was born in 1898 – so by wars ending she was already in her 50’s. I doubt she lived to be an old woman – as the type of life that being a semi-conscious auto-writing transcendentalist would age one fast. At least she wasn’t the main course served up with a nice Chianti and fava beans! Edgar Cayce didn’t last long either, he was transcendentalist too. So there you have it – thus ends today’s thrilling, action packed, mind blowing installment of VRILOLOGY 102 and pseudo history by L.A. West. Chao! Class Dismissed.

    1. I am a researcher of many years and agree with much of your appraisal. That the Annunaki (technically Reptilian-Zetans) first visited Terra hundreds of thousands of years ago, colonized, and eventually pursued mixing their DNA with the already evolving hominids here in order to genetically manifest a slave race of Homo sapiens to – according to Sitchen’s archaeological findings – mine for gold. However, I differ with your opinion on the monolithic structures. Yes, there were and are giants in existence – one was killed in recent times, a story spiked by the media and the government ( – but the giants did not build the monolithic structures.

      What really happened is that about twelve thousand yeas ago there was a nuclear war. The ancient Rama empire of India noted that the Atala empire (more commonly known as Atlantis) had weapons that could level an entire city (i.e., atomic). The war erupted between the subjugating and harvesting Annunaki/Reptilians – the Reticulan empire – and Atala. There was a nuclear exchange. The end result was that the Reticulans won after deploying their far more powerful antimatter weapons. (Reference: for an understanding of Reticulan antimatter technology). The consequent nuclear holocaust caused widespread earthquakes, the end of Atala, and The Great Flood which is documented in various ancient cultures. (It also did some other things which I will leave for a future post.) The Atalan refugees used their advanced technology (i.e., gravity wave/anti-gravity technology), before it broke down beyond minor repair, to build the monolithic structures around the world, in testament to their lost civilization.

  11. Maria and what was left of The Vril Society most likely didn’t go off-world. Instead, she made a discreet and rapid exit, with the help of the Nazis and likely via one of the hundred (to be reported missing after the war) German submarines, to the underground Nazi base in Antarctica. Exactly what Hitler did.

  12. Aldebaran and Alderan. Does anyone see the similarity? It could be a coincidence but I personally don’t think so. The star Aldrbaran and the sorcerer character Alderan from the epic poem “The Siege Of Sziget” may have been mixed up while in a trance state. Add some pre mk-ultra nazi mind control and/or propaganda and who knows what the true story is. Those nazis sure were interested in vril whether it was/is true or not though. V for victory or V for Vril? Maybe the vril won ww2. If they exist. Or is vril a lifeforce like serpent/viper nahash/nachash? נָחָשׁ

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  17. Paul Caruso

    I always love hearing about Maria Orsic, UFO’s,free energy. Hitler, hollow earth, Antartica any and all of it. Mainstream history is mostly bullshit written by either people with $ signs in their eyes or a political agenda. Someday I would like to walk hand in hand with both Hitler and Maria Orsic to another world

  18. “Maria Orsic: the beautiful medium which would have got alien technology to Nazi Germany… One of the leaders of the secret society “Breakerz” supposedly reached out to a race of aliens who gave instructions to build flying saucers.
    In March 1945 Maria Orsic would have received communication from his messengers predicting the defeat Nazi before the end of that year. Realized it to several friends, some of them as the horten brothers, they came out of Germany and escaped to Argentina.

    On Thursday, 15 March 1945, Maria Orsic met with Dr. Schumann for the last time, this gave him a package with all the documents and plans of Ufos Germans and they got fired.

    Three days later, Maria and his group breakerz went to the hangars from Munich to take possession of one of the dishes and came out in an unknown direction. They were never found.
    We could keep writing but up here, I don’t want to bore you.” JT

  19. rollypolly

    While we are moving toward 5D Earth, only those of pure heart and peace within themselves and within the whole planet and Universe can ascend. As for 3D people travel tbrough the Universe 68 light years is imposible. Bunch of nazis with the biggest horrors commited toward the same kind wouldn’t be even able to ascend.
    Also there are many pictures of Maria. She looks in each of them different and not very pretty. The most famous one where she is pretty and so 70s looking it is probably not her.

    1. Walter

      So if Maria did travel away in the time travel bell they were designing maybe I can still meet her somewhere and shes still the same age of the photo above.

  20. Pingback: Maria Orsic | Aeons Sophia & Christos

    1. They rule the world so well that they’re poisoning the Earth and all of its inhabitants. Poor management from the service-to-self crowd leads to their own demise as we are currently witnessing. The guard is changing. The cycle ends. And I believe most of those whom you speak of are fleeing to South America, underground or even off-world for the elite of the elites. So much for ‘ruling.”

  21. frsnk zamlen

    i am interested in pre 1945 Germany good article if you search you can find all kinds of intriguing and weird things that happened during this period would like more info on vril and orsic thanks

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  24. Rômulo

    Eu já vi OVNI seis vezes, por quatro vezes eu não estava só. Eu e alguns colegas fizemos vídeo da última vez que vi, dia 18.03.14, em Cabo Frio

  25. Ray

    I have become seriously interested in the missing U boats, and German personnel that disappeared after the war. I am also very curious to read an English translation of Maria Orsic’s last transmission to the Vril society. I have second hand accounts of what it said , and every article says the same thing …It ends with “no one is staying here…”
    Well, what I have heard , it was a radio transmission , pretty choppy…It starts with “Only one day left…only one more day…and “We are leaving…The Others….Or possibly “We are leaving the others…” the message was disjointed , perhaps talking about their ships, and something about a “nitroglycerine engine” which is news to me . Has anyone ever made such a thing? Any leads on a transcription would be highly appreciated.

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  27. What happened to her? Can’t find any wikipedia article about her, but I did watch a documentary that speculates if they finally built that spaceship and went to Aldebaran.

      1. Like many characters of WW-II, she disappeared along with any info into the black hole to nowhere. She along with SS Gen. Hans Kammler, the chief of the Gestapo Muller and Martin Borrman disappeared in thin air after the cease of hostilities in Germany. Mush has been said concerning their escape by a UFO, that requires more proof than what we have now. It is my opinion the Federal Govt. is quite aware of their status. They may have been under protection of Operation Paperclip and or fled to South America.

        1. Correction about Martin Borman. his remains where found in Berlin And identified through
          D.N.A. (POSITIVE) he was killed through Russian shelling close to the Reich chancellery.
          Get your facts Strait before you make yourself look like a Fool!.

    1. Your info is intriguing. Obviously, something requiring research. Do you care to offer your sources? Who in the Rockefeller family did she marry? Was she using her correct name once she entered the USA? And, you imply her daughter was born into a single parent situation. If all you stated are facts I definitely wish to see your sources….ty.

    2. Yes, she was. Which of course, lends to the interests she poses. The only photos of her appear to be in her twenties. If the info Qwerty offers is correct she would be 50 years old at the end of the war. Due to the fact, I’m intrigued I hope as time goes by someone will offer solid evidence based on good sources. In fact, I’ve been involved on this issue for many years here on Wes’s blog. I noticed many people offer their beliefs and info without offering their sources. While many may find that too hard to expect, it should be noted that such info requires the sources of true investigations in academic circles.

  28. qwerty

    Maria Orsic was born 31/10/1895 in vienna Austria . Her father’s name is Tomislav Orsic he was born in Croatian . Her mother’s name is Sabine Orsic was German . In WW2 Maria Orsic she was a medium in the Vril society in Germany . On the 11 of March 1945 she left a letter ending in “niemand bleibt hier ” none is staying here . After the war she was taken USA in opration paper clip She had a child named yolanta raffa She did not marry anyone in the Raffa family and she would of been born between 1945 and 1950 . Maria Orsic married into rockefeller family .

    1. How do you know what happened to her? The last I heard, it was thought that she just disappeared and some think she left on an ufo that was seen flying over Hamburg(sic) just before she disappeared.

    2. thatcrazytoaster

      she was not taken to paperclip. that was a military operation and Vril is not associated in any way. Vril was metaphysical in nature and Maria and her associates did not approve of using the technology given to them for military purposes even thought that’s what Hilter did with the information.

      1. thatcrazytoaster…What you stated about Maria not being taken in Operation Paperclip because she did not approve of using Vril’s higher awareness for military purposes makes sense in light of the idea that she was rejected by the Nazi high command in participating in the secret escape to the underground Nazi base that was protected by Nordic fascists underneath Antarctic – which Operation Highjump under Admiral Byrd confirms. Medium Maria and the others in her metaphysical group most likely escaped through suicide.

        1. iamlonefrog

          Wow, have you not read any of Wes’s works on this topic? Obviously not. It’s not like you haven’t had the time. Seeing how this article was posted back in May … of 2009.

          How terribly arrogant of you, posting comments on a blog you have not read, while stating that you have the “most likely” answer. Might I suggest that you read more and comment less to avoid coming off as an…

          oh never mind

          step in as many piles of shit as you want, at least we can smell you coming

        2. thatcrazytoaster

          I thought Maria & the girls were all taken/ as in rescued. NOT a suicide. I never found info on a suicide rather a rescue. They were all rescued from the surface.

        3. Suicide? Well, that is quite an assumption on your part. Why would such a young beautiful woman end her life? She wasn’t a criminal. Nor was she a Nazi.and appeared to be of good stock and far from being a peasant. Murder maybe but suicide makes no sense whatsoever. Back in that day, people could disappear with little fanfare. Especially after a war of that magnitude. Do you have a source for that assumption?

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